Why We Need To Talk About The Loot Box Controversy: Diablo 4 - Does Overwatch Do Loot Boxes Right?

Creator: Rhykker Views: 16252
Uploaded: 14 Oct 2017 Likes: 1176
Patch: 0.8.0.0 Disikes: 51



Александър Тренчев on 14. Oct. 2017.
Announcing DLC before the game isn't even released is garbage, microtransactions and loot boxes/crates for a full priced game is also garbage, those kind of things are killing gaming. I suggest people to stop buying/support these kind of games.
Andy Smith on 14. Oct. 2017.
I actually like the Shrouded Moors level, it's the Temple of the Firstborn that is horrible. Glad they're bringing it back for GRs!
Blood-Lord on 14. Oct. 2017.
I'm okay with microtransactions in Diablo 4 as long as they're not loot boxes and they're only cosmetic.
blackcat7k on 14. Oct. 2017.
Overwatch doesn't do it right at all. It's the normal Blizzard nonsense: Blizzard has infinite good will to burn and the do the most repugnant things that other companies get crucified for again and again. The loot box system exploits the addicted, it always has. That's the reason F2P games hang on to it with such a fervor. Blizzard could have sold all of those cosmetics like many MMOs used to do. However, they really stretch that content when the make you have to deal with a ton of garbage sprays, and trash you *REALLY* don't want and constantly make those drop instead of just allowing you to pay them for the content. Ironically another super hero MMO, _City of Heroes_ did it the right way, before NCSoft destroyed it in typical NCSoft fashion by trying to make it F2P. Initially, because they were charging subscription they gave updates with costumes. The highest voted were given to the player base in the updates and then the rest were sold in theme packs: Animal, Mecha, Steam Pun
Ryan on 14. Oct. 2017.
Micro Transactions are fine, as long as it is not Pay-to-Win. But I do prefer just buy cosmetics rather than loot boxes, but for those who wanted those loot boxes, games can include the "Legendary Skins" in those, while allowing people who only wanted to support the game to just buy what they like (except the loot box exclusives.
Tim Cardinal on 14. Oct. 2017.
so your against loot boxes......????? If you and the other you tuber's would quit making loot crate openings(card packs) videos the loot box thing would go away. The idea behind this monkey see monkey do. As for the gambling thing DIII is gambling, That's the main point of grinding finding that important things you need, and the rush went you find it. There 2 ways this go's away 1 everyone stops buying or as you said and 2 the powers to be removes it. We all forget the power of the gamer if WE all say no they will have to listen
CitanulsPumpkin on 14. Oct. 2017.
I don't think it's feasible to classify all "Skinner Box" games as Gambling, even when they are legitimately gambling. That being said, Overwatch and Blizzard's "free" games have some of the least offensive loot crates in their genres. In shooters alone Overwatch surpasses the competition by the simple fact that they don't charge the players $5, $10, or $15 per each new character and map that comes out. If you bought the base game you get all the crucial game pieces for that base price. They didn't charge players $5 for Sombra, $15 for Doomfist or $30 for the upcoming Junkertown map. The "It's only cosmetic" argument is crap though. The entire point of the game is to collect cosmetic items. That's how players measure progress in the game. "I have this one, and this one, and this one, and I still need that one, but I have this one and this one and..." Don't let douchebags win you over by saying "It's only cosmetic items."
Raijinn on 14. Oct. 2017.
The fact people say that Overwatch did it right is a sign of the problem, no lootboxes are ok cosmetic or not.. it's a system designed to prey on people psychologically. There are plenty of consumer friendly ways to monetize your game..lootboxes are unethical and not designed by game developers but by Psychologists. And you youtubers that do lootbox opening videos you're literally a cancer on the gaming community.
Zerbyte on 14. Oct. 2017.
Loot boxes, the gateway drug to gambling?
dotatough on 14. Oct. 2017.
I don't care if loot boxes are cosmetic only but getting BETTER items is a joke.
Travek Maxwell on 14. Oct. 2017.
I'd there be no micro-transactions, however I know there will be regardless what I say, so at least it isn't pay 2 win and strictly cosmetic.
sagetheinferno on 14. Oct. 2017.
I'm okay with loot boxes as long as it's not super hard to get thus almost forcing you to have to do micro-transactions(have heard Fortnite is like this and NBA2k). Overwatch to me is perfect and with how the lootboxes drop-rate is now. I don't feel like i'm getting duplicates way more than I should and if I don't wanna spend money I just grind it out. When games that require progression I'm a little less enthusiastic but like I said as long as it's not super difficult to get attain boxes I'm generally okay with it. If you wanna drop money to get everything right now good for you I'll grind a bit and get it over time(part of the experience). Hoping Star Wars Battlefront 2 does it right and gets a good balance and not being too grind-y and having decent drop rates. We shall see though, EA doesn't have the best track record, maybe they'll surprise us.
Messenger ofdeath on 14. Oct. 2017.
You can not regulate common sense into peoples brains the day you can our free and open society will be over. Parents should be responsible and make sure their kids don't have the means to either buy these games in the first place or buy the loot box's. Personal responsibility are both words that everyone including you Rhykker should learn. You say not buying it won't work I disagree with that totally if enough people start not buying these trashy games that shouldn't have been bought in the first place they'd start losing money and be forced to change or go bankrupt. Which from what I'm seeing more than 50% of them do need to right now no one should be buying these games.
Michael Stieger on 14. Oct. 2017.
So, logically, if I make a slot-machine, but one which ALWAYS gives out at least a little something (like, a paperclip), it's not gambling anymore? Even though that something is basically worthless?
Guilty Light on 14. Oct. 2017.
I'm all for cosmetic loot boxes, especially in F2P games. But, speaking as someone who fell into the trap with a couple games (namely FF:Record Keeper and Brave Exvius), it's hard to see how much money you're throwing at a game or how little it's worth in the long term when you start talking about P2W situations. It's incredibly addicting, not to take any personal responsibility away from my own bad decisions. And I'm an adult who manages their own finances. A kid, even one raised with an allowance for chores and all that, isn't going to have any appreciation for the actual value of a dollar. Also, sometimes when you play games with loot box or 'buff for x hours' mechanics, you can *feel* the way the game was tweaked to make it more punishing if you avoid spending money, whether in drop rates or difficulty or time required, compared to how it'd be if the P2W mechanic wasn't there. And that's a shitty feeling, and part of why I can't find a non-ported-RPG mobile game to play latel
Arthrogeddon on 14. Oct. 2017.
It's kinda odd to call a build by its set when the set buffs multiple spells. Vyr=archon, so no problem, UE buffs multishot and generators, so we make différences. But tragoul and pestilence...
Alex Salvador on 14. Oct. 2017.
As long as loot boxes only contain cosmetic items and the game allows players to buy these items directly, then I'm fine with loot boxes.
DevilukeMomo on 14. Oct. 2017.
Greeed, games just 10 years ago had no micro-transactions and had a real, enjoyable story / gameplay. They were unique. Now devs (well, probably publishers) are always looking for a way to milk money for as long as possible from people with deep pockets. So yes, i agree with you Rhykker. Unfortunately micro transactions are not gonna disappear and im quite happy with blizzard way of loot boxes. Cosmetic only. I hope they could actually do new skins instead of color changes.
Andromahlius on 14. Oct. 2017.
Look up "Gacha marketing" if you're interested to know where this is coming from.
ShopFloorMonkey on 14. Oct. 2017.
I find loot boxes massively unethical personally, for many of the reasons you laid out here. Plus there's the 'slippery slope' aspect, IE 'if publishers get away with this where next?' I remember when DLC was first brought in and people cried 'Conspiracy Theory' when other people said it was a slippery slope. However looking back now, with the knowledge of what they did recently with Forza 8 (removing aspects that were freely available in menus in the previous game and putting them behind RNG paywalls,) I think it's a perfectly justified position to remain both skeptical and vigilant as I feel the slippery slope has been pretty much been borne out now. Sadly, publishers only need a small portion of the player base to be 'whales' to justify current/future cash grabs in the companies minds. I personally think that this will be punitive to the experiences of the 90% or so that don't by into the loot box craze. Throw in the Shadow of War idea that you can pay to skip the gameplay of their
BIAKaboose on 14. Oct. 2017.
I think that earnable loot boxes are perfectly fine, and I think that Overwatch and Heroes of the Storm do it fairly well, but I hate purchasable loot boxes with a passion. Random rewards can be really nice, and using earnable in game currency specifically for them is fine, if you're indecisive on what you want and don't care then it's great. It feels like sleazy business practice to sell loot boxes for real world money because while legally it isn't gambling, as you said, chemically it is a very similar prospect and some people can become addicted to it and destroy their own lives through that addiction.
MYUTHULU on 14. Oct. 2017.
Also, gambling is a broad term. Existing in general in this life is a gamble. But if we're talking about slot machine gambling, then no, lootboxes are nowhere near that type of gambling. That's like saying buying blind bag toys from a toy store is gambling. Nope. Everyone who's complaining about it must be an entitled little kid who has enough spare time to complain about something as meaningless as lootboxes. That or they're just gullible. Also if your kid is stealing money from their parents, then that's the parents' fault for not teaching their kids respect. It's not hard to sit down with your kid and make them understand that money is valuable and shouldn't be taken for granted. Or just that taking things without permission is wrong. Why is this even a conversation? People on the internet need to take some basic ethics classes ffs.
mbloome on 14. Oct. 2017.
So I'll shoot my 2 cents on this and see what people think. Incoming wall of text. Loot boxes are a weird grey area for me. I thoroughly enjoy in game currency loot boxes, and in general gacha games. The types of games where you buy packs/crates that have characters/cards in them. For me opening those can be a lot of fun, but the problem I've seen is that the majority of games that implement this system do so in a very mobile game friendly way. The grey area I see isn't so much that the games have them, but that there is a very definitive ceiling for what can actually be earned in game. As an example I'll use the game Bleach: Brave Souls (which imo has one of the most generous ceilings), where the currency of choice is orbs. When you start playing the game you get orbs for basically everything you do. Anytime you clear a level for the first time, the events, weekly arena placing etc (I'm sure you get the gist) but it becomes abundantly clear after a few months that the orbs start
RuneChaos1.01 on 14. Oct. 2017.
@11:39 promoting behaviors.... "here daughter! have this cross bow, shoot that demon, he is bullying us."
Chase Sye on 14. Oct. 2017.
Micro transactions are just a part of gaming now, it’s shady as hell and it sucks, but when they can get their hands on money with no consequences they’ll take it.
Umbra Dread on 14. Oct. 2017.
Just look at the problems of For Honor
MYUTHULU on 14. Oct. 2017.
Pay to win lootboxes is different from cosmetic lootboxes. And how is Overwatch supposed to make money? Do you want them to make us buy expansion packs that have maps and heroes? That model doesn't work anymore. Lootboxes are a better way for both consumers and suppliers.
Terry Barcelona on 14. Oct. 2017.
So basically you made a video celebrating loot boxes, found out they were unpopular, and then made a video slamming loot boxes?
Jake Jones on 14. Oct. 2017.
Under their definition, SLOT MACHINES aren't gambling. Because slots now give you something almost every time, maybe you only get back 1/2, but you get something. It's ridiculous, loot boxes use the psychology of slot machines to get you to open more boxes.
Rifour on 14. Oct. 2017.
Diablo 4 don't need loot boxes, Blizzard will probably ruin it like Diablo 3. Overwatch doing loot boxes like poor F2P game. Every B2P game either singleplayer and multiplayer shouldn't have loot boxes or any microtransactions. Every rewards in B2P game should be acquired by: achievements, challenges, objectives or other forms of TRUE progression system and not just from fake meaningless grind or spending money.
Based Esidisi on 14. Oct. 2017.
I find it really funny that people are complaining about the notion of gambling and Lootboxes now all of a sudden, when it's been a problem for the past 6 years or so in video games. While I don't necessarily disagree with you +Rhykker in that lootboxes are pretty much a form of gambling per the very definition itself of the word, but the thing is since as you said it only involves paying money for possible items you might get in the game, then yeah from a legal standpoint the ruling made by the ESRB is pretty fair IMO. Besides, it's not necessarily something you have to do, these games aren't forcing you to pay money to advance, but the freedom to pay money is there for those who want to do so, that's it. And as I said in the beginning there is a huge amount of other stuff in videogames nowadays that's tantamount to gambling, hell, Destiny was basically a first-person shooter slot machine, and basically anything that involves grinding on an RNG loot system fits the glove of gambling.
Howard Jones on 14. Oct. 2017.
I have worked in a casino for 5 years from being a dealer to a supervisor. Let me just say Lootboxes are not Gambling. The comparison to buying packs of trading cards is spot on. Thats basically what it is.
srg08 on 14. Oct. 2017.
By what I could make out of all this mess is that people got angry with the new game that use loot box for the ill practice of pay to win, blizzard use them properly by only using them as cosmetics/other non-game breaking mechanic. And that is what got people fired up for. Personally I hope those game get a taste of their own medicine with both low sale and “hacks”. Normally I’m against those type of behaviour but when the game himself give a unfair advantage to people who as money then they should never complain about it “ mia culpa “
kyo on 14. Oct. 2017.
hey rhykker, this is folks
EX-Bahamutgamer on 14. Oct. 2017.
well only thing i can say. is make a game does give out real money in the loot boxes but put it as secret like error bug of which it aren't. i do think one game company needs to take the blame harshly in counts but in a way they protesting to change loot boxes as actual gamble system. i think every teen starting to realise with these loot boxes you aren't getting anything just some data of which you can lose it when sever goes down just like steam can. i do think digital age needs to be address because these companies are getting away robbing you. what was a free pass time enjoyment. i know going sound like retro. you know the most out lasting game well one of, games of all time is doom 92. to this day community built moddeds games to i think few of you know about brutal doom of which bethesda rebooting doom to similar as brutal. dlc was shady especially expansion. c'mon lets be real to us how much you spent on world of warcraft since it first release ? the amount suspicions fee have
Teri Corbett on 14. Oct. 2017.
So here is where I have an issue with micro transactions or loot boxes within diablo, the community just about had a stroke over the inclusion of the auction house everyone felt it was pay to win so is this not the same thing just with the loot box you take your chance of not getting what you want. The remove the A.H. To make everyone happy and to even the odds for everyone but then would micro transactions and loot boxes then do the same thing? It would give a large advantage to those who have the money to keep purchasing items or loot crates which then make the game again uneven for all players. If they want to make micro transactions for things like skins stash tabs maybe even pets ( but only if everyone still has a shot to farm those pets if they can't afford to buy them ) then I am all for that, to give an advantage in game to those who can afford it while those who can't get left behind then no that's not right. That is as bad as people who use bots or acts or exploits to gain an
Poki#3 on 14. Oct. 2017.
My opinion: If you want Lootboxes in your game, make the game free. If you're charging for your game there should be no loot boxes that you can buy with money (even in roundabout way, like buying currency to then buy lootboxes)
Mil John on 14. Oct. 2017.
include the additional stash in micro transaction in diablo 3, its been a problem for long time but they ignored.
Vain on 14. Oct. 2017.
Be Path of Exile not Blizzard games. Buy what you want directly don't gamble for it.
ShakalakaKing on 14. Oct. 2017.
It is a very dangerous trend. I feel that loot boxes and micro transactions have no place in single player games. At all. This new trend of finding more clever or sly ways of getting more money for the product you bought, and this applies no more than just Blizz, is getting disgusting. Amiibo's are physical statutes that unlock locked in game content in most nintendo games, loot crates are everywhere, and they are gambling, there is no doubt about it, they are designed to take advantage of the dopamine rush. The line has already been drawn in my opinion when skylanders came into the picture. In multiplayer / mmo's, I feel that that is different territory, but even then, we are walking a razors edge now. If this continues unchecked, soon games will simply be a skeleton we have to pay to put the meat on. Don't support these practices.
EntaiIIe on 14. Oct. 2017.
I'm with you - if it has to exist, I don't care if they are just cosmetics. I am very strongly opposed to any sort of pay to win or any sort of advantage from them. I vote with my wallet too.
TYMER WILCOX on 14. Oct. 2017.
I like rainbow six seige loot boxes to. You play you win you increase your odds and you get a roll when you win. You lose and your odds still increase.
Adam Warrix on 14. Oct. 2017.
There was a guy on my Chair League team that liked loot crates in HotS, because he liked the gambling part of it. He would buy tons of them for the thrill of opening them.
Adept on 14. Oct. 2017.
Personally I don't care about loot boxes. But if the loot boxes were P2W I would not buy or play that game, at all. But what the game companies have to think about is that their loot boxes could go as far as they did with CSGO. And that is a huge problem, especially if you can trade said loot boxes to others. Then gambling sites will open up and also Facebook groups and people will get scammed right and left. And the last thing, a few or even several games has died because they put in P2W micro-transactions. Would Blizzard really risk that?
Andrew Taylor on 14. Oct. 2017.
I personally enjoy camos and skins in games.. the ability to gamble for them is OK aswell.. like battlefield 1 has done is allow us to buy boxes; then weekly; rotates us skins we can outright buy.. which is all fine and dandy.. my issue is that theres 1 legendary skin per weapon; and in this game A LOT of them are repetitive and some are so similar aswell "if there making this money by selling us the chance to win their created stuff on the game weve already bought.. ATLEAST make SURE theres diverse content.. and plenty of it!
TehPickle on 14. Oct. 2017.
Personally, I'm only OK with lootboxes in free to play games. I'm especially opposed to them in full price AAA games, regardless of whether it's purely cosmetic or not. That said, I'd still prefer to see the entire industry move away from lootboxes entirely, and just allow a flat 'buy the items you want' system. The lack of transparency is really insidious, and it's a worrying trend. Tin foil hat time: It wouldn't surprise me if PEGI and the ESRB are getting their pockets lined by these AAA companies that want to continue to push lootboxes.
Steven Miller on 14. Oct. 2017.
Overwatch does it right for sure for games that cost. If your game is free than just keep the RNG as even as possible.
vileguy on 14. Oct. 2017.
There's no way that Diablo 4 will have loot boxes. Why? D3 Auction House. Something that works in 1 game (WoW, Overwatch) doesn't necessarily work in Diablo. Diablo has chests, those are similar to loot boxes, but only vaguely. There's now way this will happen.
Daniel Weir on 14. Oct. 2017.
"I'd Rather not be stabbed but i'm grateful you sterilized the knife first." Bahahah!
Casey Wright on 14. Oct. 2017.
I don't consider Overwatch's or HotS' boxes gambling because they're just cosmetic, and it isn't necessary at all to buy them. Gambling is defined by a risk of loss vs a chance of success. In HotS and Overwatch, there is no risk because you don't need to buy them. If you did buy them, (why tho?) maaaaaaaaybe you could argue it's gambling because you lost money and didn't get what you want. But the case of "you still got a reward even if it's something you didn't want" is still a fair case against boxes being a form of gambling. And these boxes are definitely not unethical just because the game wants people with weak wallet control to buy them. You don't blame the liquor store for a man's alchoholism, and you don't blame the casino for a man who blew his entire savings away. I'll agree that Shadow of War's implementation of these boxes is pretty bullshit though. Pay to Win boxes are bad and should not be supported in any capacity. If Diablo 4 gave boxes with cosmetics, I want the abi